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Post by tommyhetherington on Mar 5, 2010 20:26:16 GMT
Brendan, Thank you for the information not sure what to think at the moment a mixed bag of news some good some bad. All that we can hope for is that the Council will tie in with the Dept and make it as easy as possible!!!!! Thanks again Tommy
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Post by andybrennan on Mar 5, 2010 21:46:07 GMT
Brendan
Thanks for the update,
I am trying to figure out how many if any widows are overholders. I imagine they would be scarce on the ground.
If the council is as prompt as it has been over the years especially regarding O/P and re housing of other over holders I again imagine this conversation will crop up about 7 years time.
The 6 to 8 none payment of rent etc are these individuals or families.
As for succession it should not happen
It was very good of whom ever you were in contact with to give you such frank answers, and to promise you further updates as they occour.
More to this then meets the eye.
Andy
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Post by afcmoore on Mar 6, 2010 0:30:17 GMT
Hi Folks. Sorry i had to rush my last post and what i should have said was a good source is looking at the situation regarding the threat of evictions in the Curragh. I don't think anyone has said anything to damage the Forum which we all love dearly. I would just like say that Guest Guest gave me some information on a name in the past which i found most helpful. I would like to once again say well done Brendan for leading the way and been such a Champion and putting the spotlight on how the residents in married Quarters are dealt with. Cheers Anthony.
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Post by andybrennan on Mar 6, 2010 1:27:34 GMT
Hi all,
DEVILS ADVOCATE for The above subject I was hoping that there would be represented the other side of the coin by forum members. 1 Any one or most of us could have been an over holder but we choose not to be, 2 If that is the case then over holders have had the same opportunity. 3 Lots of older soldiers on reaching the max age left the camp and purchased their own homes through one system or another I have no intention of naming any of them but most of ye are aware of them.
4 Succession there has been a fair amount of that, with those that chose to succeed never paying any contribution small or large to the coffers of the State. 5 maybe the councils were partly to blame for the incidence of over holding in barracks by not rehousing them. 6 I do not think that over holding is or was unique to the Curragh fairly certain it occurred elsewhere. 7 There were and are different levels of over holding some paying their way some not. 8 I can remember when on the death or termination of service the holder of Md Qtrs had 24 hours to vacate or they were evicted
What are your thoughts on these points and can you add either pro or con.
As far as the Army /dept of defence goes it fed clothed and in circumstances educated me and mine as I am sure it did yours. It put money in our pockets and because of that particular job gave us all the memories that we have of the Curragh. It was and still is a great job.
I feel that over holding in the last 25 / 30 years was a result of people becoming comfortable with the status quo and did not like or feared change of starting over this I can understand as I am quite conservative as the years crawl upon me.
Saying all of this I still object to the method of the proposed evictions , there must be some order placed in the lives of those effected.
Andy
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Post by tommyhetherington on Mar 6, 2010 16:27:31 GMT
Hi Andy, Always good to have a Devils Advocate and show the other side of the story, the points you make are true indeed. Some people tried and indeed I think there were others who did not try to leave. I am aware of residents who tried to make payment but this was refused as then it would have been a contract of sorts. Anyway each story is different and the main problem is how the issue was dealth with or not dealt over the years. I do recall the council calling out to my Dad and they were of the opinion that well you are in a house and are ok . This also happened to others who made an attempt to vacate. Sometimes the system works other times its like a brick wall similar to the Health service when it works you get treatment and every chance other times no and we all know of people who died on waiting lists etc. But yes Andy good to see another point of view it keeps the grey matter ticking over.
Tommy H
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Post by andybrennan on Mar 6, 2010 20:53:03 GMT
Fair points Tommy,
Yes I also am aware of the councils attitude, council houses then were scarce and they were of the opinion that if you had a roof of any sort over the head you were lucky and the washed their hands of the problem of rehousing. Now how ever there is a glut of houses and growing but alas who can afford the rent,
The only people getting shafted are working and now middle class.
Little changes. Listening to all the parties minor and major calling for general elections etc and not a cure in sight, was listening to S.F. speeches lambasting the other parties but willing to go to bed with any combination to grasp power. and speeches not unlike Churchill's we will fight them on the Beach's etc
This whole situation we as a country are in is like a major bereavement that only time will heal.
I do envisage when there will be no MD qtrs on the Long Hill
Never know Tommy might never happen.
Andy
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Post by kellquinn on Mar 6, 2010 21:08:50 GMT
Hi all See the Government is alloting €200,000 Thousand Euros to do a survey on Corncrakes, Yes! Corncrakes, While I am all for conservation and have a great respect for the Flora and Fauna of this great country, I cannot figure this, I am sure that when the Celtic Tiger was in vogue, they could have done these surveys, now that the country is slowly going down the tubes they come up with this. How many homeless people would €260,000 Thousand Euro look after, at present we have €60,000 to do a survey on snails in Ireland and €200,000 to do a survey on Corncrakes. And like the Snail survey the Corncrake survey will possibly be done by outsiders. The next item for taxing will probably be the Air we breathe.
Regards JKelly
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Post by andybrennan on Mar 6, 2010 21:14:31 GMT
Small change Joey,
Cost more then that to put a shop in Leinster House,
as far as I know both of the species are endangered,
the homless species are not apparently they are growing and are expected to exceed all expections this year, people,
Andy
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Post by rose5mcdonaghtce on Mar 8, 2010 11:13:33 GMT
Hi Andy,
I am not saying that the wills were not legally binding documents, but as I said if any of them had been contensted their uniformity and the typing, storage could have caused problems. When proceedings arise out of any Legal Document the first thing the Solicitor/Barrister does is go over it with a fine tooth comb looking for loopholes and any little error that might throw a spanner in the works, if it achieves nothing more than a major delay in a Judgement/Settlement, he is earning his fee.
I worked as a legal secretary for thirteen years, and it was part of my job to type up wills, how I hated it, not allowed use Tipppex or rubber, black marks from the typewriter on the paper, as when the Document is presented for Probate and if there is an issue any good Barrister would be saying the document was tampered with, where uniformity is concerned was the deceased well enough informed etc., Some people would leave a £1 with every priest in the Country to say mass for the repose of their souls, each one having to be entered, jaysus you would just be coming near the end and hit the wrong key and have to start all over again, ofen spent a whole day starting over and over again, word processing makes it so much easier now, the young ones have it made in offices they don't know what frustration is.
Lets face it we all know the old timers who have lived all of their lives on the Camp, not all widows either, what a mess for them, who have maintained their homes, always had the community spirit and respect for the hand that did feed, educate them etc., one family in particular are living on benefit at this stage in their lives I am sure, what a mess, they will have no problem finding accommodation to rent, but at what cost when living on benefit? they cannot apply for rent supplement until they are actually evicted from QTRS as they won't be homeless until then, if they don't have family willing to take them in, they won't be able to get supplement because of overcrowding, can see them having to go their seperate ways and take up accommodation on an individaul basis, devastating at this hour in their lives. This is why I would urge them to get legal advice, am not for a minute saying the Dept won't be smypathetic to their needs, but they need to ensure that their interests are protected and if its a thing that they have to vacate the house it will be with dignity and some organisation around their needs.
As for Kildare County Council they will have their hands full with young couples with children, losing their homes because they cannot maintain mortgage repayments, don't see a lot of our old neighbours taking precedence over them on housing lists.
Am also sure that the Dept have some tenants who if renting in the private sector would have been evicted a long time ago because of nuisance issues/anti social behaviour.
What a mess it all is, the thoughts of no one living on the Camp and as Joe says not being able to walk from Pearse to Plunkett and shake off the years as you do. When Orchard Park was being erected was the the plan then to keep building and move all occupiers off the Camp base? think I remember something about that at the time and then again could be another senior moment I am having.
Rose.
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Post by tommy sweeney1 on Mar 8, 2010 20:05:08 GMT
Just reading back through the posts on this subject I was deliberately keeping my opinions to myself because as guest guest alluded to in his comments their is a conflict of interest for the want of a better term with a serving member getting involved with regard to contacting media,protesting etc, My view on the subject is mixed really In the camp you have serving members,overholders both contribute, then you have squatters I know not a nice term, I don't include widows of soldiers as such. These are people who joined stayed in the army for a number of years who might have received a gratuity but have no pension and are as Andy said living free, electric,heating ,rent,on the tax payer you and me, why should they move out? In my opinion and I have said it in other threads,Having worked in the housing office for ten years seen the lack of policy on married quarters which if had been implemented would have solved all the problems we see to day, including the demolition of the houses we all lived in. There was no interest whatsoever in refurbishment that could have been funded by charging a reasonable rent and kept some of the jobs were loosing in the board of works and army to day. I used married quarters when I got married first and was very glad to have a roof over my head my own girls were brought up in quarters and loved it. Some of residents in the camp have no connection with the Army broken marriages were the soldier who once was alloted the house now has left the army the partner brings in somebody else and the soldier has the rent still stopped out of his wages. I have seen plenty of people stuck in this situation. I could rant on for ages but I better not. JUST SEEN I HAVE TO LOG BACK IN TIME EXPIRED i WILL POST THIS FIRST IT CASE IT HEADS OFF TO SYBER SPACE.
TOMMY S
Tommy S
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Post by andybrennan on Mar 8, 2010 20:48:33 GMT
Hi Rose,
Another well put argument /arguments as you are dealing with a couple of subjects.
Wills, people are terrified of them in case it hurries their demise, in the case of males and I stress not all males, they are scared that there poor spouse now a widow will meet some other and the new partner will get their mitts on his whatever was left if you get my drift, aware of the succession act,
and the rights of children etc, plus the executor and their right plus expenses etc
Also aware of the state / condition that the will must be in and am very aware of the human side solicitors etc who want their bite of the cake that is nature, my self yes will made but what I leave will be the residue of what I have after I and my good lady have had our pleasure that can be got from it before it is divided up again might not be clear in the articulation of the subject.
As for the over holders no matter what their status YES YOU ARE RIGHT it is and will be a mess, What are they going to do with their possessions for example while they are being shifted on a possibly daily basis living out of suitcases I have no answers.
Ref Orchard Park. The demise of the base qtrs was not necessarily then but I feel sure that when the prospect of purchasing which took some time might have had a bearing think if that had being applicable to the other Qtrs.
do feel that all these problems only really apply to the working class, and no matter how hard times are that befall folk it is those at the bottom who bear the brunt of the hard ship.
I would like Kentgals views as she is in the thick of a deplorable situation reference the distribution of whatever, does the top get the biggest bite and the lowest the smallest
Andy
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Post by andybrennan on Mar 8, 2010 21:07:36 GMT
All valid points Tommy S,
But I would rather see a share of the taxes that are extracted from my few bob going to cover those whom are left in the Camp then going for expensive dinners for our state bodies representatives etc.
Andy
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Post by tommysweeney1 on Mar 8, 2010 22:53:17 GMT
No argument there Andy, I don't think we can stop the tide, but maybe slow it down a little.
Tommy S
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