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Post by Brendan on Jan 13, 2010 2:59:40 GMT
Greetings to All:
I guess it’s universally accepted that there’s nothing to get people riled more than religion and politics. Ironically there is, in a sense, religion and politics around us everyday. People we meet and know, people we work with and people we don’t know too well.
Having been a soldier, policeman, worker, businessman and teacher I’ve come to the realization that there’s good and bad in people around us. Sadly, because of a few bad apples people in organizations are tarnished by those sad, and sometimes, despicable people. When I was in the army the vast majority of soldiers and officers were exemplary. Likewise when I served in the British Police, most of the lads and gals were simply awesome. Even in my school days most teachers were good, honest living people as were most of the priests. I know the Church was slammed over the years, and rightly so, particularly the bishops who sat on their thumbs. But I saw stuff in the army too that was covered up. Despite this most men and women serving are truly inspirational.
It is understandable to see why ones’ beliefs are shattered because of the betrayal of a few. I remember arriving home about 10 years ago going straight to Naas Hospital to see my mother just before she passed. I genuinely saw comfort in her face when we prayed and then the priest gave her the last rites. I’m convinced receiving the sacrament brought her to the gates of heaven.
Sadly, having attended too many funerals at home in recent years, I have nothing but the greatest admiration for the clergy in Ireland. The pendulum of change has turned full circle, albeit not for the better. Priests face an unmerciful struggle against adversity and public opinion. I take my hat off to most of them for “soldiering” on.
I’ve met some fantastic priests over the years in England and the States who have devoted their lives’ to the community in which they served. I remember Father Michael Judge who died while administering the last rights to a fire fighter as the WTC collapsed. I thank God that I had just missed the first plane going into the tower.
My apologies if you think I’m pontificating, I just like to say it as I’ve seen it over the last 35 years; we’re all human, and there’s good and bad in us all. But I am convinced that goodness will always win over badness in the end.
Thanks,
Brendan
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Post by andybrennan on Jan 13, 2010 7:02:20 GMT
Hi Brendan,
Very well put,
I agree that goodness will and does overcome bad if not we are all up the creek
Andy
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Post by afcmoore on Jan 13, 2010 12:20:36 GMT
Hi Brendan. Yes there is many good Priests and yes they do a lot of good helping and are comfort to the sick and dying people. The priest i was talking about was very in the face at a time in my life when i believed in their power to do no wrong. He also assaulted two Jehovah witnesses because of the books they were passing out and was treated as a hero by some people at the time. I do not agreed with the teaching of the witnesses but everyone is entitled to their beliefs and im sure they do a lot of good as well. I was brought up as a Catholic and do go to church but i belive that Priests should be allowed to marry and that women should be allowed to become priests and as for certain other people they should not be in the church as priests and are a bad influence on children. I have now finished with the subject and im not sure if I'm right or wrong and so long as i do my best not harm anyone i think i will be okay. I lost a Cousin in the top floor of the twin towers Sept 11Th J Erwin RIP. Now that was pure evil . Brendan i would just like to say how well you made your point with great skill and knowledge of a well traveled man what a great post. Cheers Anthony
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Post by mary carroll on Jan 13, 2010 19:42:28 GMT
Hi All, I also believe priests should be allowed to marry, I have seen alot of changes come into the Catholic religion since I was a child, when at Mass I have to say I wouldn't go to the lay person to receive communion I felt I should only receive this from the priest but if these changes are made and priests allowed to marry and women to become priests, this would change my beliefs. Who knows maybe we'll see these changes soon.
Mary C
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Post by andybrennan on Jan 13, 2010 19:57:17 GMT
Hi Mary I have no problem with priests marrying but that does not mean he will be better or worse, same for women priests some of them could be as bad as a bad priest, another point people feel hard done by by subscribing to their priest but then they would have to subscribe to a family,
only way to find out is let these things come to pass
Andy
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Post by tommysweeney1 on Jan 13, 2010 20:01:07 GMT
Hi Brendan and all, Brendan I presume its Brendan Delaney, I think your bang on everybody can recall the bad priest we have all met them, not only priests all walks of life as you rightly say, but they are in the minority by a long way and have done the people and church a real injustice not to mention their colleague's. Unfortunately they have lost alot of respect, and support here. while I myself am a church goer it has become pretty obvious that the average age of the people attending church here has risen dramatically in the last few years. nice to hear from you All the best Tommy Sweeney
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Post by andybrennan on Jan 13, 2010 20:09:28 GMT
How she cutting Tommy,
another good opinion put forward without having a go or pointing the finger at anyone
andy
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Post by Brendan on Jan 13, 2010 20:22:50 GMT
Hi Mary & Andy:
Actually there are several dozen married priests who live with their wives and families. Most of these stem from the Episcopalian Church. They decided to defect from their own Church and being already married, they received a special dispensation from Rome. to the best of my knowledge, they work in harmony with their fellow celibate priests.
It may be a sign that things are changing. I actually agree with women being ordained. History attests to the fact that it was, and still is, women who sustained the Church through the centuries, through famine and wars. Without women, the Church would be very small indeed.
Thanks,
Brendan
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Post by andybrennan on Jan 13, 2010 20:29:33 GMT
Hi Brendan I agree that there are married priests but not the same as a blanket allowance for marraige in the priesthood, as for women priests they would bring a touch of sanity to the situation, not enough women in high places as far as I am concerned
andy
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Post by anncu7hane on Jan 13, 2010 22:47:19 GMT
Hi Andy I agree with you Andy,i dont stay angry for long Ann
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Post by andybrennan on Jan 13, 2010 23:05:53 GMT
Thats great Ann. anger is useful but futile. you seem to be in a good place.
Andy
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Post by afcmoore on Jan 14, 2010 0:09:05 GMT
Hi Katyo. Great subject well done that's liven things up and got them all going Worldwide. The priest was about to visit the house young Johnny and his brother Pat were fighting in the upstairs bedroom about their fathers overcoat which was covering them both in the bed. Johnny shouts down to his Mother Pat keeps pulling all the coat to his side of the bed. The Mother tells them not to make a show of her when FR Murphy comes for tea and don't call it a coat its an eiderdown . The priest duly arrived and was sitting in the parlour drinking tea from the best china and Johnny shouts down ma Pat keeps pulling the eiderdown to his side of the bed and hes got his legs in the sleeves of the eiderdown. Cheers Anthony
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Post by andybrennan on Jan 14, 2010 0:35:21 GMT
Hi Tony.
twas and is a good subject, and many is the diverse opinions it elicited from the members of this forum
and as Brendan stated you will have controversy on this subject
now I'm away to the scratcher good night
Andy
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Post by rose5mcdonaghtce on Jan 14, 2010 0:38:30 GMT
Hi All,
I too remember the priest's visits, and the nuns that used to come around the Camp, I think in the summertime collecting for the Missions, anyone else remember them. The usual preparation for the visit, best cups, biscuits etc., and being run after you had smiled and said hello Father. The nuns were brought in and treated the same and did not leave empty handed.
I go to Church on a very regular basis, I work crazy hours, and attend in Naas and Newbridge, if I miss Sunday I usually attend during the week. The only priest I know by name in Newbridge is Father McDermott and probably because he baptised three of my four children. If I am honest I have no interest in getting to know any of them on a personal level, and I don't think any of them want to get to know me either. There are funeral ministers, baptismal ministers etc., and no priest has rang my door bell that I can remember, the envelopes come through the letter box though.
I agree with Brendan theres good and bad everywhere, but it appears the Catholic church had more bad than good. Those who covered up, aided and abetted those horrific crimes against children might as well have abused them themselves.
Can remember Mam who was a devout catholic telling us that she worked for a time for a family in Ballysax who were protestant, she asked for time off to go to confession for a first Friday, the lady of house told her to make her confession during the service, when Mam told he she could not do this, she had to go into the priest and confess to get absolution. The woman asked her was she mad, going to tell a man who committed sins himself, her faults, she told her it was between her and God, and that God did the forgiving and would not give her the time off. Mam told us she often thought about this, and maybe there was some truth in what she was saying. Another incident was when Mam would not eat meat on a Friday, she quizzed her and Mam said it would be a sin, she asked her how could a bit of mutton digested into her stomach destroy her soul. I think this lady had Mam thinking a bit about the rulings of the catholic church back in the forties.
As was already said there is nothing about baptism etc in the bible, but all religions have their rites and rituals, and as Brendan already said the comfort and courage his mother took from the last rites made her passing so much easier.
Priests should be allowed to marry/women ordained, feel sorry for the good ones that will carry the legacy of what has been uncovered in recent years.
Was in the mess one night with Tom Coyle RIP and there was a discussion about what the world was coming to all sorts going on to which Tom replied "the world is coming to nothing there are no new sins, its just at the moment the old ones are getting a lot of publicity".
God Bless,
Rose.
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Post by andybrennan on Jan 14, 2010 17:22:34 GMT
Hi Rose, Tom was good at coming up with a gem of a one liner he had many.
As for baptism was John the prophet not the baptizer of man and Jesus. As far as church goes I don't get upset if I go or don't go' I do have an affinity with baptism it seem to run through Christian belief, I do not know my parish priest personally but have on a few occasions called on him to visit some person who asked for a priest and he has never let me or them down some times traveling some distance, I find that he performs his priestly duties very well others might have a different opinion???
Any way as long as they continue to do their job they should be paid at least what the recipient of his services, any ideas what would be a fair price?? The envelopes that pop through the letter box are partly for up keep of priest and also for the upkeep of the parish and I would hazard a guess that more are not returned then are,
Andy
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