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Post by jim on Jan 8, 2010 21:37:32 GMT
Is it just me or does anyone else find the sight of four soldiers (in full uniform) on tonights news shovelling grit onto the streets a bit disturbing? It brought me back to the Bin Strike days when we had to spend weeks in Dublin shovelling sh*te in the 1980s, also at a time when we had huge numbers on the Dole laughing their heads off at us. Last June there were calls for the Army to deliver Exam Papers to the schools (due to a mistake in the Dept of Education) even though we have an excellent Postal Service and a myriad of private Delivery companies vying with each other for business! What is it about Irish people that whenever somebody falls flat on their face at a particular task the cry goes out to "Call in the Army?" Using Army 4X4 vehicles is one thing, and I can see cause for it these days, but four soldiers shovelling sand off the bucket of a JCB on the Nine O' Clock News? In full uniform? A joke and in my opinion, and demeaning ,and proves to me that little has changed in Ireland since my day. The Irish people think very little of their Army, but of course they never did anyway.
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Post by Sean Tracey on Jan 8, 2010 22:21:42 GMT
Hi Jim . I could not agree with you more. It would seem that this was always the case. Even in my time living on the Curragh it was always the same when the s..it hit the fan call in the Army. The rest of the time totally ignored or looked down upon as being the lowest of the low . Even having a Soldier as a father you were looked down on. Take them off the dole to do this work dont make me laugh as here in the U.K. AND Probably in Ireland it would do something to there Human Rights or some nonsence to that effect. Sean Tracey
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Post by Matt McNamara on Jan 8, 2010 22:54:09 GMT
Is it just me or does anyone else find the sight of four soldiers (in full uniform) on tonights news shovelling grit onto the streets a bit disturbing? It brought me back to the Bin Strike days when we had to spend weeks in Dublin shovelling sh*te in the 1980s, also at a time when we had huge numbers on the Dole laughing their heads off at us. Last June there were calls for the Army to deliver Exam Papers to the schools (due to a mistake in the Dept of Education) even though we have an excellent Postal Service and a myriad of private Delivery companies vying with each other for business! What is it about Irish people that whenever somebody falls flat on their face at a particular task the cry goes out to "Call in the Army?" Using Army 4X4 vehicles is one thing, and I can see cause for it these days, but four soldiers shovelling sand off the bucket of a JCB on the Nine O' Clock News? In full uniform? A joke and in my opinion, and demeaning ,and proves to me that little has changed in Ireland since my day. The Irish people think very little of their Army, but of course they never did anyway. Hi Jim You have made a fair point and everybody is entitled to their point of view. I too in my time in the army have seen the Army, Air Corps and Navy been called upon in the event everything from “Fire Strikes” , “Prison Strikes” , “Bus Strikes”, “Bin Strikes” and the latest “Flooding Disasters” last November and December and now the severe Cold Weather snap. But what we must remember is that we are a “Defence Force” and like all other countries that has a Defence Force, the government will call on that Defence Force to mobilise in the event of a disaster or emergency been declared. I will admit that some of the jobs called upon are not glamorous, but soldiers in uniform on the national news in this time of crisis can only be good public relations on the behalf of the Defence Forces. Only last month I was listening to a radio news chat where a member of the public called for the Defence Forces to be disbanded in order to make savings to the public finances. The Defence Forces do always get hit the hardest in the public service and are often treated as the poor cousin when it come to dishing the finances for new equipment and recruiting, but as a serving soldier with over 24 years service and I done my fair bit of “Aid to Civil Power” duties in that time. What sets us apart from all other public service departments is that we have discipline and that we are a proud organisation, who when we sign the dotted line, serve the elected government of the day. Defence Forces Mission To provide for the military defence of the State, contribute to national and international peace and security and fulfil all other roles assigned by Government. Matt
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Post by andybrennan on Jan 8, 2010 23:06:32 GMT
Hi Sean, Jim Sorry lads I don't agree with you . The Army is there as a last resort when things start to break down, they don't mind shoveling sh..it or other wise in foreign countries . I feel that what was portrayed on the national news was pure propaganda and if not they are poorly equipped with shovels as you and I both know they have very good Machinery to do these jobs in a fraction of the time that four men with shovels would, The army is there to help in any situation where the powers that be feel they need them to stand in , you can not cherry pick what they assist in. The rubbish strike needed someone to help , ambulance strike bus strike the floods no matter which union , government department or whatever body f...s up then it is up to the army to lead by example and diffuse the situation, one should not think that they are there only for the glamorous tasks . and saying that there are a lot of people on the dole who would be proud to wear the uniform and serve their country no matter what the capacity, they are not on the dole through choice and if they were forced into labour then where are we as a free state
Andy
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Post by andybrennan on Jan 8, 2010 23:11:45 GMT
Matt, you can put the words so much better then I. I did my fair share of all sorts during my service, never felt like a second class anything and the thanks of the people being helped was worth it all
andy
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Post by kellquinn on Jan 8, 2010 23:16:44 GMT
Hi All. My feelings on the Army getting called out "In Aid of/to Civil Power has always been in favour of so doing. The Army are a well trained skilled outfit and should be called out at all times in emergency, I have been out on many occasions, Fire strikes, Bin Strikes, Transport and so on, and it serves as a good Public Relationship exercise and builds a good profile for the Army/Navy/Air corps/Reserve. The Forces of today including the Reserve can turn their hand to any given task, and do so with good heart. I admit that years ago the Armed Forces were slagged off and had a poor name, however with the onset of such strikes as mentioned above it only served to highlight how valuable we were. Regards JoeyK
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Post by maryfarrell6 on Jan 8, 2010 23:21:28 GMT
Hi Matt and all, I love this site but the one thing that really annoys me is Matt and the other serving soldiers on this forum having to defend themselves from people who should know better!! People who grew up with us and lived the life with us, but now have this issue with the army and the army life. Hey all you serving soldiers and vets you most definetly have my support always and forever Best Regards MaryF
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Post by andybrennan on Jan 8, 2010 23:32:41 GMT
Well put Mary
Andy
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Post by anncu7hane on Jan 8, 2010 23:39:59 GMT
I remember my husband having to go to Dublin as a medic, i think it was the fire strike i never heard him complaining about it. My son is in the army now I asked him how would he feel if he was sent out to shovel snow, he said he would not mind that it's all part of the job Cheer's Ann Culhane
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Post by andybrennan on Jan 8, 2010 23:56:31 GMT
well put Ann.
I remember reading about a billionaire last year who said he did not mind picking up others peoples trash as it meant less litter on the streets or words to that effect, also Johnny Kelly his good wife sister in law and brother in law keep this estate where we live virtually rubbish free weed free and grass mowed and never complain or ask anything in return
andy
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Post by jim on Jan 9, 2010 0:35:54 GMT
Well, I served 30 years in the Army so I know what I'm talking about. Eight years of it I spent in the Glasshouse (as an MP) in the Seventies looking after the 'guests of the Nation' that the Prison Service found to difficult to handle. I'm not slagging off the Army, far from it, I gave it my whole life, my youth and eventually my good health, and I too have sons in the Army. No, far from slagging off the Army, I am one of it's best supporters and hate to see it used in the wrong way, ie, roles it was never intended for. In a lot of respects people in the Curragh were shielded from the low esteem the Army was/is held in in Ireland by virtue of the fact that they moved in Army circles mostly, wherher on or off duty. Down the Country it was somewhat different. Refused service in shops, refused credit/ Bank loans, etc. I didn't join the Army to be a Prison Officer or to shovel nuts, but if some soldiers were proud to do it, well I never met any of them, and I for one wasn't. Shovelling nuts, Grit, and cleaning the streets of Dublin or delivering Heating Oil never amounted to providing National Peace and Security in my book. Anyway, i'ts my opinion, and I've made it. Oh by the way for the posters who thinks I am a civilian I am also a UN Veteran, (six trips, two with UNFICYP and four with UNIFIL) Thanks Matt.
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Post by andybrennan on Jan 9, 2010 0:54:13 GMT
greets Jim
Put your point of view across well your opinion ,and you are entitled to it, cant say that I noticed that any one thought you were a civilian without service, as it is clear from all postings, who has service no matter the length,
sure this forum would be a dead loss if we all agreed on everything, it is the controversy that stimulates it , stand by your principles and every one else do the same makes for good debate
Andy
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Post by Guest on Jan 9, 2010 1:39:15 GMT
Hi All,
While surfing through the forum I saw the topic Aid to "Civil Power" and would like to say I thought the Defence Forces were doing a great job gritting the areas that couldn’t be done by the County Council and also helping out the HSE by bringing home ill patients who could not get home due to the weather. Unfortunately I disagree with some peoples opinions on the matter.
It is clearly stated in the mission statement, which is known to each member of the defence forces, that they have to “fulfil all other roles assigned by the government.” Unfortunately this does involve been “a Prison Officer or to shovel nuts” or whatever the Government deems necessary in times of crisis or emergency.
So I would like to say that this is part of the duty of the Defence forces and you should have been well aware of this duty when you signed the dotted line.
Well that's my point of view and as Matt and Andy have rightly said everyone is entitled to their opinion!
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Post by Louis Parminter on Jan 9, 2010 3:17:27 GMT
Hi Jim,
I read your contribution with interest and can see things from your perspective, though during my service did accept that 'aid to the civil power' to be all encompassing in that I could at any time be called upon to provide a service where the civil authorities for whatever reason were unable to do so. I too have a problem with the freeloaders on the dole watching as our soldiers are called upon to do jobs that could and should in my opinion be carried by those same freeloaders where they are medically fit to do so. I was in the PDF in the 70s when even in Newbridge Banks and businesses would have nothing to do with a soldier, totally demeaning, so whilst we suffered less than soldiers in other areas of Ireland we were still very much discriminated against. But during that period our own commissioned officers had little respect for the soldier so how could we expect more from civil society. Things have come a long way since then, but not far enough I fear. I am sure there will be much more written on this subject Jim and thank goodness nowadays we all have the power of free speech.
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Post by andybrennan on Jan 9, 2010 9:53:41 GMT
Hi Louis,
another interesting view on Aid to Civil Power, my one fault with most contributions to this topic is the term freeloaders for those who may be on the dole through no fault of their own, wrong to brand them as that, I am sure that as in every sphere of life there are some who abuse the system as in the army all ways some who know how to milk that system, but the dole queues here as elsewhere are swelling not due to the fact that all those unlucky to be in that situation are not FREELOADERS so lets not turn them into scapegoats .
Andy
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