Albert Edward, Prince of Wales - Curragh Camp - 1861

[Matt McNamara]

Albert Edward, Prince of Wales (later King Edward VII) underwent Military training at The Curragh Camp in 1861. Photographer Captain Edward Dyne Fenton captured the event and presented the Prince with a souvenir photograph album of his training.

[andybrennan]

Great stuff Matt.

Lovely snaps.

Andy

[mysterie]

Nice pictures, I wonder if there is any way to find names for these soldiers, my great great grandfather was a soldier on the Curragh in early to mid 1860's.

[Brendan Delaney]

Matt,

Interesting pictures and a happy depiction of the occupying British forces of the 1860s on the Curragh. The troops were well fed and jovial and had every right to be. Please allow me the opportunity to present the reality of the indigenous population of the 1860s in Kildare and Ireland.

Ireland was stilling attempting to recover from the excruciating potato famine of the 1840s and pockets of famine over the following decades. The 1861 census shows net emigration in Ireland between 1851 and 1860 was 1,163.418 people leave Irish shores primarily for America and Canada. The counties surrounding the Curragh saw a massive movement out of the country. Kildare 12,177; Offaly (King’s County) 20,867; Carlow 10,639 and Dublin with 25,196.

Britain on the other hand occupied multiple countries in every continent while the indigenous population lived in abject poverty including Ireland. There is a stark contrast in the photographs you show of the British army and local photos of Kildare Town in 1861. I really loved the picture a "select" group posing. Not one of the wore a smile.

Brendan

[andybrennan]

Hi Brendan,
Good to have your input.

Regardless, a fine collection of snaps.

Andy

[Brendan Delaney]

Hi Andy,

Totally agree with you! Like the old cliché goes: a picture speaks a thousand words! I merely contrasted the two worlds as depicted by the snaps at this time and moment in question. Fast forward to today! When you think of Irish soldiers serving with the UN, they are there driven by a UN mandate seeking to make the world a better place for the local indigenous population.

Irish men and women perform their mission with zealous fervour and enthusiasm second to one. I tie this into the history and circumstances of our history. This drives the mission statement and culture of our interaction and perspective of the troops in foreign lands.

Thanks

Brendan

[gaul]

Interesting and true analysis of the period of British occupation. it is very probable that a very large percentage of the soldiers pictured were Irish. As a résult of abject poverty caused by absentée landlords young Irishmen saw the opportunité to earn a shilling a day ,travel, and expérience adventure. The English were not attracted to the army,the discipline was harsh,100 lashes in public for minor offences, pay less than that of a farm labourer. Ireland was actively targeted as an essential source of recruits. The Irishman was highly valued as as a soldier. Indeed the British empire was built on the sweat and blood of the Irishman, which, as has been stated,was ironic given the contempt with which Ireland was treated.

[kellquinn]

Great piece of History and very interesting, while we all have our different opinions on the occupancy by the foreign Army it is now historic, over with, finished, and time to move on. My Grandfather took the Queen's shilling, and served in The Curragh Camp in 1894 at the age of 19 with the 1st Battalion Connaught Rangers having completed his recruit training in Renmore Galway. Ironically after completing 21 years in the Queen's /Kings forces, he then completed another 21 years in the Irish Free State Army. Many a young man in those days did so to eke a living. It was not only in those days that young men joined the BA.They have continued to do so to this present day doing very well for themselves and achieving great rises through the ranks. looking closely at the photographs, one can see some well known areas of the Camp that still exist to the present day. The unique history of the Curragh Camp is built on this occupancy, and I have often wondered what the Curragh would look like and would be without this chapter in history. I am presently working on my Grandfathers contribution to the British and Irish Forces and will send it on to Matt soon.
Regards to all
JoeKel

[Brendan Delaney]

Hi Joey:

Good to hear from you. Facts are not opinion oriented, they're merely facts. Comparative analysis of conflicts are educational, which can be directly correlated to historical repetitious events. It is folly to ignore history as they have a way of repeating themselves. Global conflicts today are a true example. My grandfather, like hundreds of thousands of Irish men, fought in the Great War and I am very proud of them all. I also served in the British Police. These are facts!

Stay well,

Brendan

[andybrennan]

Brendan,

good to have you back.

Andy

[Matt McNamara]

Gentlemen

It’s nice to see some healthy comments and debates on the history of the Curragh Camp and events of the past, such as the visit of Albert Edward, Prince of Wales (later King Edward VII). I personally think that the collection is an amazing find and gives a great insight into life in the Curragh Camp at that time. I am not a royalist by any means but this visit and the fact he was here when the Curragh Camp was in its infancy and the camp is still here today, including some of the very buildings that can be seen in the photographs. The fact that photography was still relatively new and somewhat complicated procedure is a testament to the skill of Caprain Edward Dyne Fenton the photographer as the photographs are of such high quality and are now an invaluable piece of the Curragh Camp history.

As I have said before on this forum, "The challenge of history is to recover the past and introduce it to the present". That is what I try to do with this open forum and web sight.

Matt

[Brendan Delaney]

Andy: Thanks for your kind words.
Matt: I wholeheartedly concur with your premise of introducing the past into the present. For me, the real qualifier is to learn from the past and move ahead.

I don’t want to sound like a doomsayer but we have to face the evil that confronts us all today, in EVERY country. The outrage of the barbaric actions perpetrated by the likes of Al Qaida, ISIS and Boko Haram etc., should never be accepted.

I’m giving away my age, but I vividly remember when IRA operatives were trained by Muammar Gaddafi in Libya. In 1973, the Irish Navy intercepted the Libyan naval vessel Claudia. The army learned a great deal about the IRA’s capability and sophistication. As an instructor in the Engineer School we were not only able to talk about ‘modern’ armaments, but we first introduced soldiers to a new range of sophisticated anti-personnel and tank mines. We then learned about the most powerful high explosive in the world at the time, Semtex.

We should NEVER let our guard down. Do we learn from history or what?

Brendan

[afcmoore]

Hi Gentlemen.
I have found all the photos of the Curragh Camp in the 1860s amazing.
I have enjoyed reading your comments .
Well done Matt for posting the wonderful pictures.
Ant.

[gaul]

Indeed, fantastic photos and as you say Matt more so because cameras were relatively rare.

This is part of of our history,at certain times throughout the occupation by the British the Irish were very badly treated. The people had to adapt to difficult times, that is what makes us a people who can cope very well with adversity.
I agree totally that to dwell on the past is self destructive.We must forgive but not forget, to do so is to dishonour those who suffered.
I never imagined I would say this , but we can take example from the Queen of England, her visit closed a very difficult chapter.

I found it really interesting to see the trainig of what I percieve to be guards regiment training in defensive squares.It took a battalion less than one minute to form a square,which was total defence against attacking cavalry. Their bearskin hats were first worn after the battle of Waterloo as a symbol of their victory over the "Old Guard" of Napoléon who were the first to wear the bearskin.

[andybrennan]

Hi guys all opinions put forward by you valid.

I just love the photographs and the quality of them showing some of the buildings etc from that era.

Goes well with the Royal Curragh Golf Club.

Andy