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Post by Matt McNamara on Oct 20, 2008 4:48:47 GMT
Hi Noreen I am a man of few words, but as I host this forum I felt I had to reply to you last posts. I am sorry that you feel this way after this long time, but some people bottle things up and it eats away at them for years and sometimes a lifetime. I can assure you that you are not alone when it comes to having feelings like that. The Curragh for me growing was the best ever and I would never change a thing, but I have seen and heard enough in my younger years to know what was going around me. I would consider myself lucky and had two good parents, my father like a lot of soldiers at the time liked a pint or two and to be quite honest I think that my mothers sewing skills kept the food on the table. This all happened before I came along and I seen the better side of things, my older brother or sisters might have a different story. But that I think if people want to talk about it here on the forum well that is alright with me. Who knows getting things off our chest may help and encourage others to talk about their experiences both good and bad. All the best Matt
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Post by Sean Tracey on Oct 20, 2008 8:57:34 GMT
Hi Matt. How saddened to read Noreens comment i suppose this forum has thrown up the good side of living and growing up on the Curragh for myself i enjoyed it all and would not change if i could. I do remember some very dark sides to the Curragh . One such instance springs to mind of a family well know to us all how the Husband would come home from the Mess ranting that his wife was not good enough for him and then proceed to beat her up i can remember Mam having to get cold milk bottles to put on the Bruses this Ladies facethe next day , this was among other things was a sad underbelly of Camp life back then. It and drinking to excess by husbands and some wifes too caused a lot of problems . Like yourselves we had a good set of parents as with your mother she was a dressmaker and took in extra work so it was with my dad he always seemed to have something going. However all i can say is thank God for Mickey Collins and other shopkeepers who back then gave tick to lot i think the problem would have been much, much bigger.If there are any more Noreens out there i suggest they share experiences with us all as in my oninion the problems were known to exist by the powers to be but like a lot of things back then they chose to ignore them. Sean Tracey.
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Post by guest on Oct 20, 2008 8:59:59 GMT
Hello Noreen,
Unfortunately you were not the only one to experience these things . I understand only too well were you are coming from; I would think we had a similar upbringing. Thank God for the Mrs Murphy’s of this world, and I have to disagree with you, you are very good with words. I hope that by using this site it goes someway to helping you.
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Post by Sean Tracey on Oct 20, 2008 9:19:36 GMT
Hi Noreen . Please do not think your your are out of order telling of your experiences , far from it as i said in my last posting the powers that be both Clerical and Military choose to ignore it and probably hoped it would go away. I myself seen it first hand as a child not within my own family i hasten to add, but going to other childrens houses but at the time did not understand what was going on . Cheers Sean Tracey
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Post by rose5mcdonaghtce on Oct 20, 2008 9:37:25 GMT
Hi Kentgal,
Booze induced poverty was across the board, civic street and the Camp and let us not fool ourselves it still goes on across the board. I am not for a moment disrespecting or making light of the misery suffered by families on the Camp through alcohol. You talk about the red brick jungle and the stinky shared toilets, at least women were sure of the house in the red brick jungle being left over their heads, I now work with a lady age 57 whose father had no problem drinking his wages and happy with his fists in his booze fuelled rages. They lived on civic street, her Da spent the money in the local boozer instead of the mess or canteen. From she was age 8 to 14 they were evicted from three Council houses for non-payment of rent, they came home from school to do exercise mostly in a neighbours house no electricity cut off. And like Noreen they lived in fear of the person who should have been their protector and provider. When the evictions took place they lived with their maternal grandmother who did'nt have the room or means to have them there. The Da going elsewhere not welcome in that house, their mother listened to the litany re: the useless drunk she had married every day on the hour while they listened. They remained there on the three occasions until the Council housed them again. This lady grew up and married a speciman similiar to her father (not unknown to happen) the same problems left with six to rear on nothing and nurse broken ribs. He managed to lose them their home even though he held down a good job. She has since sent him packing, but before this she managed to get him to move from the area they lived in and change his job, thinking these were the reasons for the problems, i.e. take a while to make friends in the new job so he won't go boozing with the lads every day, new area wont have his regular seat in the pub etc., After a lot of counselling she realises moving to the ends of the earth was'nt going to solve the problem, because she had brought it with her, HIM. "THE MESSES HAVE A LOT TO ANSWER FOR" is a phrase we are all familiar with, not everyone went in and deprived their families, local boozers had a lot to answer for as well, its not the area or surroundings its the individual, indeed if these Da's had not joined the Army am sure life would not have been much different on civic street living with them. Was lucky to have been born into a house where alcohol did not rule the roost, and as a result enjoyed the lifestyle that the Camp provided, and not experience the poverty my cousins did which was not booze induced. Rose.
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Post by guest on Oct 20, 2008 9:47:45 GMT
Noreen,
Your posting has prompted me to write about one experience I had. A new family arrived on the Curragh I made friends with one of them and off out the plains we went to play, after a while group of other children arrived and took my new playmate aside, I stood watching the proceedings there was a lot of whispering my new playmate was looking over at me differently, the group then started to walk away my new friend in tow, when the bully of the group shouted back” she cant play with you your father beats your mother” I just stood there mortified what could I say it was true.
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Post by Brendan on Oct 20, 2008 16:12:05 GMT
Hi to All:
I would like to congratulate Noreen for her courage in revealing her pain, and indeed, showing us the dark side of life in general. The messages of the commentators (Rose, Sean, Matt and Guest etc) are indicative of the goodness that resonates about the wonderful folks that still have the fresh air of the Curragh blowing in your hearts and outlook of life.
You reveal a testament of good and bad that shows we are all a by-product of a solid foundation, where unfortunately, some fell foul to the booze and gambling culture that goes with army life. On a personal level, I experienced solid and good living people where neighbours selflessly helped other families without a bells and whistles looking for recognition. Among the large families, cups of milk, sugar and a slice pan changed hands flawlessly before the Garrison opened. They were returned with gratitude and love a couple of days later - probably on Friday after pay day.
Thanks to Noreen and everyone for revealing the good natured people that made a difference to others in their lives.’ When the nuns in Kidlare told my wife’s class to stay away from the Curragh riff-raff, I’m glad she didn’t listen. But I also want to reveal to the world how wrong they were. I, for one, am very proud to be a Curragh man. To hell with the begrudgers they don’t know what their talking about, nor will they ever understand.
Brendan
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Post by Sean Tracey on Oct 20, 2008 16:29:37 GMT
Hi Brendan and all. WEll said that man this is exactly what i have being trying to say you have said it for us all. I can concur with what was said to your wife i had a similar experience when i went to Post Primary School in Newbridge. The one thing that kept me going in that hell was that every evening i returned to the Curragh. What some of these people that said these horrible things forgot that without The Curragh there would have been no Newbridge as such it would have still been just another dot on a Map. Cheers Sean Tracey.
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Post by Kentgal on Oct 20, 2008 19:09:28 GMT
Hi Noreen and all
I must firstly say "well done" to Noreen & to Matt for providing this forum to enable Noreen and the rest of us to have a voice. Congratulations Noreen. I'm sure there will be some relief from the fact that you are and were not alone, not now and not then. The very poignant words here will probably be a first step in the healing process. Evidence shows that relative poverty, Domestic violence and a whole range of child abuses both physical and psychological inc neglect still needs to be tackled even today in most developed countries and more so where booze and addiction is involved. Back then in the Curragh and elswhere 'children were seen and hot heard & to spare the rod & spoil the child' was the rule of the times. Of course some of us were fortunate and others weren't. With time Society values have moved on with the recognition that children have rights too. My work, managing populations of communities just like the Curragh in Ireland, New York in USA, Sydney in Australia and any city in the UK that yield similiar profiles which make or break individuals. The sociological experience of the Curragh (which was and is the catalist for the expansion and financial success of the rest of Kildare and further afield goes without saying) was my platform to understanding human needs and behaviours and for that I along with others who have turned the experience into a positive outcome will be eternally grateful.
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Post by tommyhetherington on Oct 20, 2008 20:04:25 GMT
Hi all. Lost touch with the forum over the last two weeks had loads going on.I just spent the last Hour reading all Rose's comments in Trivia and looks like I will be reading into the Night thanks Rose great subjects. Noreen you say you are not one for words well the words you posted were powerful and took the wind out of my sails,just remember that this forum has brought a strange bunch of people together and you now have the honour of belonging to that same group. I sometimes get the feeing that i see people from the forum most days as there is a twinkle in the eyes of some as if they had talked to you in the previous few days and yet the same people are strangers. Anyway welcome to our forum of friends. Kind Wishes to You Tommy H
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Post by Aisling on Oct 20, 2008 23:40:28 GMT
Hi Tommy,
Welcome back.
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Post by rose5mcdonaghtce on Oct 21, 2008 8:42:33 GMT
Hi Brendan, You have summed it up beautifully there, can I just add after three years in the Holy Family, Newbridge every minute of which I hated, I did the Secretarial Course in the Tech on the Camp. There was only about six of us Pat Dwyer being the only lad, the best school year of my life. Anyway after course was completed went to work for Myles Murphy, Solicitor in Newbridge, a home away from home at work, as he would only employ girls from the Camp. In his opinion the best families reared in the County were from the Camp. Rose
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Post by Sean Tracey on Oct 21, 2008 8:53:45 GMT
; ;D Well said Rose you know my eldest sister Carmal worked with him also, as for Pat Dwyer as you know he was also and still is my bert mate after nearley forty Years or more .I still go and visit him every year . He and his family now live in Waterford. We phone each other at least twice a week ,or use e-mail to send each other stuff like photos etc . Cheers Sean Tracey
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Post by rose5mcdonaghtce on Oct 21, 2008 10:04:27 GMT
Hi Noreen,
Hope talking on the forum is easing some of the pain for you. You have to stop apologising for yourself, anything that happened in your home was not your fault, you were in a situation you had no control over, you say you are not good with words, stop knocking yourself girl, you have probably been finding it difficult to find the right words to explain the hurt. Something you have overcome now. Well Done you have opened a window. When I read your first post I thought what have I done, going on about how good we had it, forgetting for the moment that it was not like that for everybody, and god knows I had eyes in my head growing up too. Its terrible to say its a problem that will always be with us, the only difference now families have a support network available to them such as Alanon etc., Mammies are able to go out to work to keep body and soul together, and seperate from men who abuse them. Who had heard the word counselling or seperation then. After my Mam died, Da would have drank quite a lot, not that we suffered from want or violence of any kind, would just come home twice as depressed. I know now that he needed bereavement counselling badly but whoever heard of that in the 60's, sure you did'nt even talk about the ones you had lost. Alcoholism was rife in the Camp as it was throughout the Country, talking to a woman who would have waited all day Friday for nothing, but there were no beatings dished out. She is now in her eighties and realisies now that her husband was a chronic alcoholic who needed professional help to kick the habit if he had wanted to. The doctors in the hospital as she said who examined and certified him fit for another term of service had to have seen and known this, but if they did there was no comment passed or anyone asking her what home life was like. To this day she regrets that she had no understanding that he had an addicition that ran his life dusk to dawn or he no idea he had an illness. If the help had been there they might have worked it through and there would not be so many unresolved issues for her and her family, he might never have become sober, but as she said they would at least have had some understanding of why he let them down so often. Keep posting, My very best wishes. Rose.
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Post by rose5mcdonaghtce on Oct 21, 2008 10:17:11 GMT
; ;D Well said Rose you know my eldest sister Carmal worked with him also, as for Pat Dwyer as you know he was also and still is my bert mate after nearley forty Years or more .I still go and visit him every year . He and his family now live in Waterford. We phone each other at least twice a week ,or use e-mail to send each other stuff like photos etc . Cheers Sean Tracey Was as happy as pig in the proverbial s..t that year in the tech. Pat making it very memorable with his wit and sense of humour, was a gentleman always to us girls, was going to go into journalism, last time I was talking to him he was with Customs. Pat was very good at doing voices, Paddy Costigans wife Tereasa taught the course. making her initials T C. When doing speed tests at shorthand she would be going a mile a minute, Pat would hail " Hold on there TC" just like Benny the cat in Top Cat she would find it just as amusing as us and ask him to repeat it don't think we ever finished a speed test, though we all passed the course with flying honours. Happy Days.
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